FWIW Ranger-T 147gr (RA9T) is considered one of the top performing if not the top performing load in 9mm. You may wan't to tell them their loads don't work. LAPD, LASD, And SDPD still use 147gr in their 9mms. When the same member of the audience tried to point out that we hadn't had a sub gun shooting with the 147 grain load, he ignored him and changed the subject.- MichaelĪll these people shot by SDPD apparently were. When someone in the audience mentioned that our department had over 40 shootings with it at that point, all of them satisfactory, he turned to the crowd and said "well, most of those were submachine gun shootings, and we can't base anything on them". His version of the FBI Miami shootout has so many errors in it that it might qualify as fiction.Ī famous gunwriter and training "guru" came to my city for a national training seminar, and during his talk, he spoke of how poorly the 147 9mm performed in actual shootings, repeating what he had been writing in the magazines. No 115 gr loads meet FBI standards for penetration, and expansion, and almost all agencies have abandoned these in favor of heavier bullets.Įvery story that Ayoob writes should have a disclaimer in the begining that states "Inspired by actual events". The key is to pick one that is available, and one that functions properly in YOUR pistol. In the end bullet design is far more important than bullet weight, and there are plenty of great loads ranging from 124-147gr in 9mm. Eugene Wolberg used 147's from San Diego PD's actual shootings to prove that ballistic gelatin simulates human tissue for the purposes of establishing average penetration.Įugene Wolberg's article is the one I linked in my post above. My agency has used 147's since 147's came to market until a couple of years ago. The Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department has been using 147's since 1995 at least with complete satisfaction. It really makes you wonder about anything he has ever said.Ībsolutely false. He could have also read the many articles which discuss the injury to the Deputy and he could have done his own research.īut no, he just goes ahead and writes his story anyway without checking the facts - and gets it wrong.
Ayoob could have easily investigated the story himself by just looking at the pictures of the wound which are all over the web. This is a well documented story and the Deputy just had a small flesh wound on his back. He says that a Pinal County Deputy took a bullet through a kidney, was severely wounded and it came close to killing him. This is something that happened over a year ago and is well documented but he never even did any follow-up fact checking for his article. OT: It's not related to terminal ballistics but he messes up the facts in a story he just wrote in the latest American Handgunner about a Sheriff's Deputy shooting incident in Arizona. I used to think Ayoob was a credible source. This would include the LA County Sheriff's dept.īy the way Ayoob is a far from reliable source on terminal ballistics. Most LEO agencies in California stopped using the 147 grain-subsonic 9mm and have not switched back. I am not convinced of the efficacy of the subsonic 147 HPs. I believe, though, that ANY high velocity 9mm HP made by a reputable company, 115, 124, or 147 will do a good job of stopping the bad guy.
In summary, your opinion is based on data which makes it valid and interesting, but I prefer the data from actual usage. Unless I am attacked in my home by Lime Jello-man intruders, I prefer to base my opinion on field data. The data on the site you refer us to is based on ballistic tests on gelatin.
If there are any LEOs out there reading this who carry 9mm, I would appreciate their input. To my knowledge, police are using 115 and 124 grain HP. Please offer any data from police departments that are using that load to support your claim, and you will help convince me. I only agree that the more recent supersonic 147 rounds penetrate as well, but reiterate that they are yet unproven in the field. My source is Massad Ayoob- none better- as of 2008. Here's a good starting place for more info:
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